Gavin Quinnies: The Zenquest of Leaders with Jess Ollenburg

Our featured guest this episode is Gavin Quinnies and our topics are The Power of Tzen, adventures in entrepreneurship and so much more. Gavin and Jessica have worked together on several successful initiatives, especially within the leadership ecosystems of innovation, technology, operations efficiencies and improvement of healthcare. This episode reveals PredictiMed’s uniquely validated science, helping us predict, manage and even cure disease before it happens. Gavin is a kindred soul at the intersection of invention and drive. 

Episode landing page, topic resources and contact info for our guest at: Gavin Quinnies - The Zenquest of Leaders — zenquest.online

Here’s a highlight summary on Gavin…

·       Trained in engineering and management systems, Mr. Quinnies started his career developing artificial intelligence, automated process planning, and intelligent networks in the aerospace industry. 

·       Afterward, he served as Chief Operating Officer for a metals manufacturing and distribution firm, playing a key role in its successful growth from $20 million to $100 million with multi-state operations. During this time, Mr. Quinnies developed industry-leading health, safety, IT, quality, sales and productivity management systems. 

·       He implemented his first incentive-based wellness program in 1992 resulting in a 4:1 ROI.  After a successful exit involving a multi-competitor roll-up and NYSE IPO, he stayed on as Chief Quality, Safety, and Health Officer for the $2.0 billion dollar parent company, managing 100 locations nationwide.

·       Before co-founding US HealthCenter, Gavin operated a consulting company for Quality, Safety, Health and Life Sciences. His largest client was IBM, contributing to an international pharmaceutical lifecycle management practice and system currently being sold globally.

·       He is currently the Chairman and CEO of US HealthCenter and is responsible for the day-to-day operations of the Company including personnel, client services, financial decisions, software development, and sales management. 

·       Gavin earned his B.S. in engineering from the University of Wisconsin-Stout.

Transcript

Jessica Ollenburg: 1:14

Our featured guest this episode is Gavin Quinnies, and our topics are the power of Tzen, adventures in entrepreneurship, and so much more. Gavin and I have worked together on several successful initiatives, especially within the leadership ecosystems of innovation, technology, operations, efficiencies, and improvement of health care. This episode reveals predictive meds uniquely validated science helping us predict, manage, and even cure disease before it happens. Gavin is a kindred soul at the intersection of invention and drive. Trained in engineering and management systems Mr. Quinnies has started his career developing artificial intelligence, automated process planning and intelligent networks in the aerospace industry. Afterward, he served as chief operating officer for a metals manufacturing and distribution firm, playing a key role in his successful growth from 20 million to 100 million with multi state operations. During this time, Mr. Quinnies has developed industry leading health, safety, IT, quality, sales and productivity management systems. He implemented his first incentive based wellness program in 1992, resulting in a four to one ROI. After a successful exit involving a multi competitor roll up and New York Stock Exchange IPO, he stayed on as chief quality safety and health officer for the $2 billion parent company managing 100 locations nationwide. Before co founding US HealthCenter, Gavin operated a consulting company for quality, safety, health and life sciences. His largest client was IBM, contributing to an international pharmaceutical lifecycle management practice and system currently being sold globally. He is currently the chairman and CEO of US HealthCenter, Gavin earned his BS degree in engineering from the University of Wisconsin Stout. Thank you, Gavin, for joining us today. Welcome.

Gavin Quinnies: 3:37

Yes, super happy and honored to be with you. Thank you.

Jessica Ollenburg: 3:41

We've worked together on several projects over the years, including today. You've been a partner, a client, a friend, and I really enjoy following your accomplishments and solutions that you're bringing Gavin. Let's start with predictive med. The validity studies on this are excellent. And it seems an excellent tool set for wellness and executive decision. What should business leaders know about this offering?

Gavin Quinnies: 4:08

Well, I'm, again pleased to be doing so many things with you, Jess. PredictiMed... that is the brand for our solution offering and primarily our technology stack. That's the name that we chose. It is trademarked and it stands for predictive medicine, which is our focal point for our organization. Our mission is to predict and prevent disease, using industry leading science, technology and advocacy. And we believe the combination of those three things are not just crucial, but required in order to have a successful engagement around your population. So the validations and certifications and the awards that we've won are all independently landmarked in their own way. And in combination are, I believe, a real incredible testament to the work our team has done. And you know, the beginning of the organization is quite interesting. You know, I've been involved in a number of different things, as you mentioned, health and wellness management, and doing some things in my organizations before founding US Health. And I was super fortunate to meet my partner Dr. Raymond Gavery. He was a medical doctor and was running and created what we would now call near-site, on site and direct primary care, subscription based concierge medicine in Northern Illinois, and very, very successful practices. And about a dozen locations have had fully integrated wellness and fitness centers within them. And he had started to design some algorithms to predict who was going to get sick with what disease and I brought in kind of the business idea standpoint, I had been fortunate enough to do self funding of our own sub 100 population back in the 90s, in both the workers comp side, as well as the group health side. And that was because of our risk management approach was very clunky and far less sophisticated than what we do today. Although even now, it is still sophisticated compared to what most organizations are doing. So we'll get back to that a little bit. So PredictiMed is a is really -- to most employers, they would see us as a fairly traditional wellness program, meaning that we gather data about the individuals through a screening through an assessment. And then we deploy coaching, and engage members around preventing disease, through engagement with their providers, and with coaches and wellness programs, incentive walking programs, all the fun stuff that people do, the difference between that set or checkbox of activities and the outcomes is where the difference plays a role. So we are the only company on the planet to be third party validated to predict disease prior to the appearance of symptoms. So compared to other organizations that might report, you may have a high risk of cancers or high risk of, of heart disease or your glucose is high. Or you're not eating enough fruits and vegetables, more survey response information... ours is actually actionable. And it's actionable at the individual level, and at the group level. And at the individual level, when we gather what we can electronically about the member, and we present that to the member in the form of their app, or their personal health dashboard, they then complete their assessment and it configures their entire experience for where they've been, what they may have, what conditions they may want to manage, or lifestyle areas they want to focus on. More importantly, where they're going. And, and then what they can do about it, whether it's protocols, lifestyle, engagement, gamification, what have you. And so that's fairly unique. We've been doing this for 20 years. So we know what we're doing. As far as the validation goes, our ability to predict who's gonna get sick with what condition changes the story, we call it helping them find a way to their why. So while it's not, you know, very helpful to say to people, oh, you should lose some weight because your BMI is high, or your blood pressure's high, that's a risk factor. But we tell an individual that their risk for certain cancer, like a breast cancer, or ovarian cancer, or colon cancer, or they're at risk for heart disease, or, you know, hypertension, diabetes, back problems, depression. We track 40 different conditions. That A-ha moment is the most significant difference. And that's what we mean by the way to their why. So it's not just you've got things going on, it's what is happening in those things that are going on, and how you can do something about it. And, you know, as we age, or organ systems get older, they get worn out. That is the whole point of the aging process. And by the time someone is at a point where action is of interest, is maybe necessary, and is warranted from a risk management standpoint, that's the moment of opportunity. So very simple example, changing your oil or your brake pads too early, is not a reasonable investment. Changing it too late is obviously there's already damaged as being it, we're trying to find that just in time sweet spot. And that's about three to five years is what the science allows us to get close to in today's world, that three to five years is about the amount of time that any employer or carrier or any risk management pool has interest in managing that risk, right? And, typically are off the pool for shorter

Jessica Ollenburg: 10:45

Right. than that. And of course, the entire purpose of the energy is around preventing those shock claims. So stop loss, train wrecks, that that ruin the plan, and of course they ruin the members life and that that you know as the first area of interest, but from an economic standpoint, if you don't have the way to pay for finding that data out and having it makes sense then, then you're not going to get there. So that's the first certification is in the ability to predict 80 to 93% accurate, prior to the appearance of symptoms, that's by intelligenie. The second validation is about our ability to predict the cost. So we know within a margin of error of about 7%, that then a given group's amount of risk, by category or by condition is, is a certain number. That number is around $8,000 a year. And we know by the nature of our experience, that certain organizations are spending 10, 12, 13 - $15,000 per person per year, some are spending six or seven. And our job is to work with that organization to monitor and mitigate that total spend risk. And of course, that trickles down to the members. The other validation is in the area of care navigation. So while we are a science and technology shop, we learned long ago, that we have to do a good job of getting good data in, which is why we do screenings, we want to make sure that data that comes into our platform along with medical claims and pharmaceutical, along with payroll data, biometric data, DNA data, wearable data, we're collecting all that data that's, you know, what is needed to our predictive model to perform. And but the output of it is, is you know, how we engage members. And the engagement in the population health world is called care navigation, we have an interesting name we've been using since 2004. We call it Fantastic! Congratulations... Wholeistic, coaching, spell it W-H-O-L-E-I-Stic. Meaning that we don't really manage the disease or try to fix a lifestyle, we manage the individual. And they may come to us through a medical claim, or a hospital discharge, or a file feed of, you know, certain people that maybe have a condition or lifestyle category that we want to work on. But once we tackle that individual, we take him through our assessment. And then that creates an entire platform of engagement, for our coaches to use. And, in 2 open competitions against all competitors in our space that were interested in getting recognized and competing in which there were over 100, the only two times that that competition was levied, we won

Gavin Quinnies: 13:50

Talking about beating enormous carriers like them both Humana Blue Cross, or especially providers that are in areas of let's say, diabetes, or hypertension, or tobacco or stress. So the reason for that is is part of a relationship we had with the University of Wisconsin Milwaukee many years ago, where they heard about how we were training our internal coaches. And we were able to then develop a three credit course for them around our coaching program. And they were one of largest sites in the nation. And that's now an online tool, of course that our coaches use, and many hundreds of other professionals have learned how to coach using that tool set. So the second time we won the award, it was very interesting, the institute, which is run by basically, derivative of the Intel GE validation Institute. They came to us and said, "You guys are so weird." It's the word they used, because your coaching is done about the whole person. And, and oh, by the way, using your own data to do the analytics, because of the way you engage with the member and the way your data allows you to target your interventions, your outcomes are off the chart. And we want a different category because it isn't clear navigation something different. So if you look on our website, it actually says population health management. That's the category that we chose, because it's a combination science, and the advocacy. And again, if you look at our tagline or our mission statement, it's about the combination of science, technology and advocacy. Can't can't win the battle that we fight in population health, at the individual or aggregate level without having all three of those working together. And that's traditionally a reason for failure in our in our industry is the lack of the combination of things and and when you look at coaching alone, and our traditional engagement in healthcare and traditional engagement through carriers as an example, you know, they have a specialist for everything. And so you got a member that's bouncing around from the dietitian to maybe even a diabetic educator, to a fitness person to tobacco or stress person, and many times the information is competing, and the messaging is not congruent. So in our model, that whole person, that holistic coaching isn't just about how we engage with the member, that the members one person to work with that makes all the difference in the world. It's really the medical home, the idea that you want to have a single primary care provider is quarterbacking your care, they can't do everything, but they're still running the place. sure that that makes a huge difference.

Jessica Ollenburg: 16:50

And you've been an expert in this space for so long, Gavin. And what I'm hearing is, it's not just the validation that makes it so special, but you're also got a very holistic integrative and proactive approach. You talk about engagement. Sometimes we see corporate programs falling off, because the investment into the screening is too high, or people might be being dishonest in, in the data that they're providing. I'm not hearing that great possibility here. I'm hearing that with this engagement and with the ability to provide your own data and answer your own questions and look at what changes and outcomes might be suggested to you. It's an opportunity for not only the organization in its ROI and risk management, but also for the individual to get to a more comfortable place of confident care.

Gavin Quinnies: 17:59

Yeah, you know, it's it's such a rewarding opportunity. You look, we've been in business for 20 years, right? So the amount of lives that we've saved is just unbelievable. I mean, you're talking 10s of 1000s.

Jessica Ollenburg: 18:13

That's fantastic!

Gavin Quinnies: 18:14

Yeah... that have been affected, and when you look at things like pancreatic cancer, ovarian cancer, cervical cancer, breast cancer, heart disease, liver disease, kidney failure, these are all things that we've helped avoid by catching things early. And it's fascinating. It is, it is not easy. You do need to collect the right data and having that validation that we have done that right, because the only way you get validated in your ability to predict is to have failures. It's like how well do the brakes work? Well, you got to crash a lot of cars. You know, only a few of them crashed. But you still have to crash him otherwise you can't figure out if your brakes gonna fail. So it's the same sort of analysis on our side. And, and I can tell you that hitting on a point you were making about engagement is that we will find out from the people that we can engage where the problems are. That's the easy part. And of that population 100% of 100% of our clients are going to reduce their risk in categories. It is it is a social guarantee that when you are sitting in front of an individual and communicate with them their risk or something. And they're like, Yeah, I don't want that because my dad or mom or family member or co worker, they're at that point. And that's where it's so important to calculate by condition, not by risk factor. So you've got to look at the map and the science intelligently from a standpoint of where where does the nexus point hit. And the hard part in our industry is getting the incentives aligned, and getting the engagement aligned about about not just assessing, but doing something about it. And that's where the care navigation, in addition to the technology and science has to be very personalized, has to be about that individual. We focus our energy on having that different coaching model. Because without that, I mean, the technology is obviously customized to the individual, right? It's not easy, but over 20 years, we've learned how to do that. And getting that that one on one experience means that all that information has to be with that coach and also with the member if you're just teaching somebody how to cook on the internet, and you're not shoulder to shoulder with them, with the recipe in front of them watching how they stir the pot or beat the eggs or whatever, then that opportunity is like well, okay, the chef did it and I like it. Our job is to get the member to engage not just around their own health and their own lifestyle, but also in their engaging with their providers. That's where that that science leads to the technology given the information. Advocacy helps them learn how to utilize it, and then correlate that to how they behave with their providers and maybe their household members or their co workers.

Jessica Ollenburg: 21:19

Sure. And it would follow that with the science, with the validity and with the personalized approach, plus the ability to to have the integrative and holistic coaching, those factors would create more buy in for the employee to want to really engage, provide good information and follow through. Those are the outcomes that we find there might... if there's skepticism, it's because people think it's worthless, you know, why would I give up this information, if it's not gonna lead to anywhere that I want to go or any information that I need. You've got that built in credibility with this program.

Gavin Quinnies: 22:03

I can tell you, though, just, you know, the industry is terrible at engagement. The average is around 25%. And, you know, from an HR point of knowledge, the 25% that typically engage in what we call the "worried well." These are people that already, you know, they want to actually be rewarded for doing well. So those aren't the people that, you know, say want to ignore them, but they're not the people that are going to be your next stop loss shot claim. Sure, you need to get 100% participation. Now we average 71%, I say average. So we are three times the industry average, in our engagement, that's because we have a lot of folks that are at 100%, they align the incentives accordingly, to participate in some form of assessment and some sort of follow up. And that's our measure of engagement is that they gathered information about themselves through our tools. And then they review that with somebody which is typically our coach and their provider. And that is that is, you know, our measure of engagement. So if it's at 71%, that's off the charts, our goal is to help the employer, find ways that the program becomes no costs or becomes a profit center for them. And we have many ways to do that, given that then convert the effort of the member into a risk management strategy. And that's, that's where we're the most successful. The reason why we are at such a high amount of average engagement is because most of our clients have come to the conclusion that these separate different approaches, disintegrated approaches, meaning, for example, a telemedicine here and an EAP there and onsite clinic there and a diabetes or disease management program from their carrier this way, they don't sync. They don't they can't, they're not intended to. And, of course, we can integrate all of those various programs into a common approach. Through our technology, our engagement or communication and marketing, we could certainly do that. And we could find the areas of opportunity of complimentary engagement. Like maybe our coaches will talk to the direct primary care, or the Outside Clinic, integrated tools as opposed to five or six or 10, or even 12 different and that makes a difference. Typically, when you do that, you can actually reduce your costs significantly, and increase your outcomes significantly.

Jessica Ollenburg: 24:42

Sure. Well it really sounds like such a win-win. Seems like a real no brainer to to look into it. Thank you for bringing it to us. 71% average engagement is fantastic.

Gavin Quinnies: 24:55

We have a lot of clients that have 100% participation. In fact, that number is growing every single day because we have built programs that require engagement of a certain type to get incentives. And those incentives are, you know, ever changing and getting ever, ever more fun. In fact, we are stepping into the VR world and and starting to use all different kinds of incentives to get members to participate. And you know, that's going to take some time to fully appreciate that. And it's not for everybody. You know, our target is typically the 50 year old person doesn't have a doctor. So whether they're ready to go start playing a virtual gaming environment in the metaverse is yet to be completely determined.

Jessica Ollenburg: 25:44

(Joint laughter.)

Gavin Quinnies: 25:45

But you know, you make things more fun. And And honestly, we have taken cost completely out of the equation. If you want to really learn about how to do that. We know how. We've got 1000s and 1000s of employers that have all kinds of models, and more and more of them are taking advantage of the opportunities to learn how to work in a no cost relationship with us.

Jessica Ollenburg: 26:12

That's fantastic. Thank you so much and thanks again for bringing this great tool set to us. I want to switch a little bit and talk about entrepreneurism. We both and many of our listeners connect with bold and risk taking entrepreneurism. We did summarize your career arc a little bit in our intro, but please, if you could dive further tell us one or two of your favorite stories or light bulb moments along your entrepreneurial journey.

Gavin Quinnies: 26:42

Well, you know, like most people that are fortunate, there's some version of mentorship and learning at an earlier age. And I mean, my story is kind of interesting, because I was not a very good math student in high school. And because of that, I was participating in graphic arts as an elective. And my parents were looking for something that they can have on their own. And, you know, while I was a kid, we'd go to the, these little seminars about, you know, how to own a cheese shop or something. One day, we stumbled into a print shop that was for sale that one of our realtor friends was aware of. And by chance, I knew how to run all the equipment, because I was doing those kinds of things in high school. So at the ripe old age of 15, my mom and I started a small family print shop, so I got to learn a lot about, you know, how to work with your mom in a business, and how not to of course, and, and certainly the ins and outs of basic customer service, you know, dealing with unhappy or happy customers and the whole creative experience. And back in 1979, when we started this, that was just really the first onset of computerization into into the printing world, which is, of course, completely changed that whole industry in the last 35 or so years, I was fortunate to get a head start on that. And as it turned out, my father ended up doing a leveraged buyout of the metals distribution firm, when I was in college, I was working at that during high school while he was a general manager, and lo and behold, you know, we go from being a pretty average family to, to having these businesses that we were that we're running, and my brothers were into it and, and other family members as well. And so it was, it was interesting for me, I got into aerospace engineering, right out of college, and got super lucky to get into what may still very well be today, the best training program in that in that industry. I'm a manufacturing engineer by graduation by a degree. And so that's the area that I was focusing in and got involved in all kinds of AI and tech, way back when and some crazy inventions, things like stereo lithography, which we now know, is 3d printing, the binary large object which became the hyperlink, that kind of just crazy opportunity to learn from wizards. And, and then, you know, when I was running my own shop, well, not my own, it was our family's metals operation at the time. You know, having that, that technology expertise in a low tech industry, like metals distribution made a huge difference. And so we instituted a quality and safety programs that no one in our industry had that gave us risk, risk management experience that no one had, because of that, cultural management of a relatively low tech industry, we, you know, put into place ISO programs and quality and safety programs. And eventually we're able to leverage those into training and education that manage health. And so we brought on site clinics in back in the 90s, which is where I eventually learned about the risk management and is really rewarding at the time to save a life and frankly, the reason we did it was a business need, but we were growing. And, and we wanted to make sure our employees were, you know, at work and, and so we want to keep them healthy. And we were giving incentives for preventive care, many things like that were traditionally part of your deductible. So someone had to make an out of pocket decision to go get a colonoscopy or see their annual physician visit. And so we paid for those things as part of our program, if you participate in our wellness program, ultimately, you know, we exited, did very well, I got to, you know, be consultant for a while. And in one day, I got a call from a friend of mine that I had hired to help me build an activity based costing system and accounting type approach. And he was running IBM life sciences, pharmaceutical division, and they had decided that they were going to take all the paper documentation that was used for getting drugs approved and electronify them, then create what we would now call a document management system, you know, Dropbox, ShareFile type of thing, manage things, and no one had done that back in 2002. So I got to join a team of 15, other IBMers, and in about 18 months, we brought that thing to life. And that opened my eyes to healthcare tech, you know, I've been involved in health care kind of clinic type stuff, I had been involved in technology, but not really the convergence of that, and then meeting Dr. Gavery at the right time, really opened up the whole opportunity of what kind of business that, you know, I might want to invest in and never thought, you know, and he's still talking about and after 20 years, to be honest, I thought it would go, you know, crazy or go bust quickly. And it's been a, an interesting, slow burn. And I think that's the thing you have to take away as an entrepreneur is, you know, there's a number of different approaches to it. There's guys I know that that, that move through companies in a couple of years pretty quickly. And that's, that's how they do their thing. A lot of that is transactional, some of that is right time, right place, this is really, you know, when I got into it, I knew it would, it would either be my last gig, because we'd hit it big, or I just be on it. Because the passion, the success stories is is I don't know about addicting, but it's satisfying. And it keeps...

Jessica Ollenburg: 33:21

certainly fueling, yes...

Gavin Quinnies: 33:22

...keeps you wanting to continue to improve. Because, you know, when you're thinking about helping employers, literally some of them, could go bankrupt if their health plan was more expensive. And so building health plans with employers, which is something we do, building programs that become profit centers, in the population outside, we can lower an employer's cost by 15, or 20%. It's not hard at all, to be honest with you, and also save the senior executives life, or catastrophic health situation or, or anyone, you know, on a given team, that that's what keeps you coming back. I think, as an entrepreneur, it's the love of the game. And if the game is continuing to evolve your business or continuing to, you know, to spin companies, either one is that. So yeah, it's, you know, it's a sport, if you will. And, you know, I think, I think the hard part is picking your partners, knowing where to go, knowing where to grow. We've been very, very fortunate we were able to bootstrap with with just a couple of investors, I sometimes wonder if we should have gone and taken that huge money, you know, earlier on and, and gone that route. And, you know, you don't know until you're down the road with the right players. We're super, super fortunate to have very, very high employee retention. Almost no turnover at all, which is hard to do in a tech startup. I mean, you're talking about two guys starting something out of their basements, literally mean, Dr. Gavery and I, you know, the classic starting out of your basement with a couple of computers. And we haven't lost clients due to quality because you're continuously paying attention to their needs. So far along the way. It's been, it's been working out. Okay,

Jessica Ollenburg: 35:10

Thank you for sharing that backstory. And just to circle back on a couple of things. You said, first of all, the idea of creating health plans and saving lives, I can't think of anything more important than that! And the fact that you're bringing an ROI and case studies of cost savings, let us know that you're making it doable. We also talked a little bit about the entrepreneurism. You mentioned the family dynamic. It's my experience and experience of most that that family dynamic actually adds complexity to learning entrepreneurship, leadership, business, because we do take it personally there's... we have to set boundaries, there needs to be the hygiene and the clear job descriptions, but it is a dynamic that does influence our mindset, and it helps prepare us even more. We talk a lot on this show about youth development and how important it is to give our future leaders an opportunity to engage in leadership and be developed as leaders at an early age, I worked with Bob Galvin from Motorola, who believed that 14 was pretty much the cut off, if you didn't have a future leader being developed as a leader by the age of 14, opportunities were being missed. And that was kind of his his thought on that. And for most people, it makes sense. Everyone's unique, but that's kind of a good rule of thumb.

Gavin Quinnies: 36:41

I had an opportunity to work in a family situation. So there were different dynamics there. I mean, obviously, I was qualified, I can't tell you the number of interviews and psychological exams and IQ tests I had to go through to, to join the family firm, because we believed in that, but I coming out of aerospace, I had become a very process driven individual. And, you know, you have 2 balancing acts in any problem, and that's the people and the process. So I suggested that we let me do something which was revolutionary in that industry. And actually all industry at the time, really, and in 1991, decided to take on ISO certification. And that meant that I literally had to do everyone's job description. Sure, I literally had to work on all the internal external KPIs, I had to do all the training. So I was shoulder to shoulder with everybody at every level, leading them in ways they've never been led before in things like quality circles, and, and, you know, open communication tools. And some of that I had gone through in my, you know, my training programs, something I've learned, but was what was really cool about it is the ability to apply that. And it made a huge difference. I mean, we completely re engineered the company, from the inside out, we had little or no political problems, we created a means of cultural and manufacturing, scientific and, you know, kind of the applied growth, that an organization needs to learn how to excel. And it completely changed the whole nature of the of the organization, and that, that's really the biggest opportunity that we were able to leverage that really resulted in success. You know, I look at the way we run our shop today. It's crazy. And you and I've had this conversation, I've got 35 going on 40 teammates, and they all report to me. And that's is a definition of insanity. However, the process is so strong, that they don't need people telling them what to do, or evaluating their performance. I do that twice a year. And but it's the process of how they're organized, and how they work together in their various teams that really manage the day to day, the the weekly, the monthly and ultimately, you know, the annual goals. And it's, it's an interesting, it's an interesting way to go about it. I don't know how, how much I can continue to sustain it. As we grow, I don't want to lose touch with individuals. And that's my fear. So losing touch through having layers of management in there or losing touch just because you can't be there for everyone all the time. I don't know, which is the which is the worst of the two vehicles. So, but I'm sure you'll help us figure that out as well.

Jessica Ollenburg: 39:55

I wanted to give a quick shout out. You mentioned Quality Circles and my father Marvin Pinter was the Midwest trainer. He worked with the Quality Circles Institute back in the 70s, in Red Bluff, California, and became the Midwest trainer He did some of that through MRA at the time, and it was a little difficult at the time to get the buy in for that. But you know, intuitively it just makes so much sense. Why wouldn't you consult the people who are working with that process most closely? They can't always make decisions but they can certainly give you the data you need.

Gavin Quinnies: 40:46

Yeah, I've threatened my team that they haven't even seen us how we can really excel in using tools like that. And you know, the things we have to do -- HIPAA is obviously driving everything that we do at the client side and we have all the legal department of labor and EEOC and the ADA and and Department of insurances are always things that we have to pay attention to. But volunteering to go and work on improving yourself through a process like ISO or QS 9000. It's a whole other universe. And maybe we'll do it soon. I don't know -- have to put the one on the radar.

Jessica Ollenburg: 41:33

Well, so we'll see. All right, Gavin, here's the question for all of our Zenquesting leaders out there. We've learned to optimize our capacity by actively refueling our tanks, before those tanks run dry. What do you actively do to refuel and calibrate when needed? In short, Gavin, how do YOU zen?

Gavin Quinnies: 41:58

Well, I have a handful of tools that I've adopted on a personal and professional nature. I, I perform a relatively basic meditation of gratitude every day in the morning. And one of these crazy guys that brushes his teeth and shaves in the shower. But my point is that during that moment, brushing my teeth is primarily that the tool I use, is I visualize my entire ancestral tree, my great grandparents down to my children, of course, and now my grandchildren, and, and I get facts in wish them well, and send love. And I do the same thing with those that I work with. And those that I know, socially, that may be going through challenges, and I think about my day. So I, you know, use a fleeting moment of visualizing who I'm meeting with, and, and what the objective of that task at hand is. And it just is like a little electronic spark, you know, in my, in my body, about that moment of opportunity. So that's one thing. And then the other thing that I do, and I actually, I call this the power of Tzen. It literally is a word someday I'll write a little, you know, procedure on it. It's spelled T-Z-E-N, okay? And it leverages the concept. And I don't, I didn't really learn this from anybody, it's not something I read. It's just something I concluded not saying it's too unique. But just recognizing the idea that the human brain can really only keep track of about 10 things. So if you do IQ tests, you know, if you can remember nine or more numbers, you're like kind of a in the genius level. So 10 is kind of that high watermark. So what I do literally is I, I keep every single thing on my calendar, an electronic calendar, I use Outlook. So if I'm going to make a phone call, if I got to pay a bill, if I need to perform a project where I have to do a contract or research something or obviously meetings, of course, everything's on my calendar, because it's a need. The only commodity we have that we can control at our personal level, is time. And whether you waste your time freaking out about something you saw on the news, or exercising or having relationship development opportunities, that's all you have. And I do believe time is elastic, you can get more out of a given moment in time, if you use it wisely. So I don't think it's always fixed. But there are certainly so many hours in the day. So that 10 balls in the air, that 10 reminders, if I have more than 10 reminders then I'm like, I have to go do that... then I got to stop, then that's like, Okay, I got to work tonight, or I got to work on Saturday, or I got to delegate or I gotta take something out of my schedule, or I have to postpone it. That's just that side of it. The other side of the of the power of Tzen is the recognition that at least during the work week, we've got 10 buckets of time. Monday morning, Monday afternoon, Tuesday morning, Tuesday afternoon. And so I run my timing around those blocks of time. And if I can keep those things working together in synchronicity, that works really well and then I have to do things on the weekend. I kind of say I only got 10 things that I can get done this weekend, put in the lawn, visiting, you know, a relative, working on my taxes, whatever the heck that might be. You know, so that's the calibration side of it. That has nothing to do with recharging. So the recharging for me is travel and new experiences and the outdoors, I love the outdoors. If I don't, if I don't get grounded, if I don't, and my feet, you know, outside or fresh air in my lungs, or blue, you know, or even a gray sky doesn't matter if I'm if I'm outdoors, I love the water, trying to always be by the water. And live by the water. Most of my life, when I vacation, I'm trying to be by the water. If I'm in the mountains, I'm trying to, I'm trying to find, you know, a river or lake to enjoy. So that's kind of my reboot. So to me, that's, you know, that gives me and then the other funny thing that we do is we run our days at 25 hours that US Health. So it's a little weird by the middle of the year working from like, 3am to 9pm. But I'm kidding. We use a lot of time out of the out of the time you got I think is ultimately

Jessica Ollenburg: 47:12

there might be a wage and hours problem with 25 hours

Gavin Quinnies: 47:15

You go right to that labor law!

Jessica Ollenburg: 47:18

That's right.(Laughter) Oh, that's great. Thank you so much. All right. Lastly, how can our listeners learn more about or reach you?

Gavin Quinnies: 47:31

Well, we're, we're one of those funny companies that has like everything we do on our website. So you go to PredictiMed.com. And if you actually read, there's podcasts like this, there's interviews about me, we've had a lot of magazine articles written about what we do. And so that's kind of the backstory side of it. You know, on the technical side, you can read all about our applications and our modules and our programs. There's success stories out there. And we have our little process wheel out there. So there's a ton there, PredictiMed.com. You know, we've got over 7000 clients. So there's definitely one that can relate to the experience that that a prospect wants to go through. We're easy to find, and unfortunately, I'm the only Gavin Quinnies on the planet. So yeah, Google me up. And it's

Jessica Ollenburg: 48:33

and there you are. Well, this has been fabulous. Thank you so much for taking the time today and sharing all the insights and all the great things you're bringing. It's always a pleasure to talk with you and work with you.

Gavin Quinnies: 48:46

Yeah, Jess, and I appreciate all the good work that you've done with us. And I know we'll continue to do so. Thank you so very much.

Jessica Ollenburg: 48:55

Thank you, too, Gavin. Have a great day. Take care.